Boxing Pythagoras

Philosophy from the mind of a fighter

Sacred Geometry is Neither

In recent years, there has been a movement which has been gaining popularity across the Internet, known as “Sacred Geometry.”  I’m not using this phrase in its historical context, mind, where it traditionally referred to the geometry and architecture found in churches, mosques, temples, and religious artwork. The context in which we’ll be discussing Sacred Geometry, today, is in the idea that the very fabric and origins of the universe are found in fairly simple shapes and patterns. So far as I have been able to deduce, this whole movement owes itself almost entirely to a man who calls himself Drunvalo Melchizedek.

In the 1970’s, Bernard Perona got involved in a number of New Age philosophies. He was especially influenced by Edgar Cayce, an early 20th Century spiritualist who claimed to be able to channel the spirit of Thoth, the Egyptian god, and who made numerous claims about Atlantis. Perona found a Hindu instructor to teach him meditation, and began to “channel” spirits and experience visions. Apparently deciding that his real name didn’t sound mystical enough, Bernie Perona started calling himself “Drunvalo Melchizedek.” He became obsessed with simple shapes– especially circles– and by the mid- to late-80’s, Drunvalo had begun giving seminars on his research (a term I use quite loosely) on the “Flower of Life,” a construction composed of a number of circles interlocked in a certain pattern. In 1999, Drunvalo published his material from the Flower of Life seminars in a two-volume series entitled, The Ancient Secret of the Flower of Life.

Flower of Life

The “Flower of Life” pattern

 

In the first volume, Drunvalo gives a bit of his own biography (though, he neglects to mention the whole name change) and claims that he was one semester away from finishing a degree in physics, with a minor in mathematics, before he left college. This claim is either a baldfaced lie designed to give him the appearance of credibility, or else Drunvalo was a terrible student. I say this because I took the time to read through the entirety of ASoFoL, and I learned that Drunvalo Melchizedek is bad at math. He has no idea what he is talking about, in many cases. He often gets fairly basic concepts completely wrong. However, because his average reader is even worse at math than ol’ Bernie, they don’t even bother to check his claims.  They simply see a bunch of math-looking stuff, and they know that smart people use math; therefore, Drunvalo Melchizedek must be a smart person.

Ignoring Drunvalo’s problems with high school mathematics, for a moment, let’s take a look at his actual claims. These claims, after all, are precisely what have spawned the entire modern Sacred Geometry movement. In the beginning, he claims, the Creator existed in a void. But, the Creator wanted to create, so it expanded its consciousness. Now, Drunvalo doesn’t just use that phrase in its nebulous, New Age way, to mean that it opened itself to new ideas; he means that this Creator literally created a material expanse out of its own consciousness. Since this expanse spread evenly in all directions, it created something like a circle, with the Creator at the center. However, the Creator wasn’t satisfied, so it moved to the edge of the circle and repeated the process. It then continued to do this over and over until the Flower of Life pattern emerged. Thus the universe was born!

For a moment, let’s give Drunvalo the benefit of the doubt, and pretend that this description is not completely nonsensical. One has to wonder: how did he come to this knowledge? Did Drunvalo Melchizedek come to this conclusion after finding curious patterns in the Cosmic Microwave Background? Did he construct mathematical models which are built off of known physics? Did he compile and aggregate results from scholarly publications by cosmologists? Don’t be silly. Drunvalo Melchizedek’s sources are much more reliable than that! No, he learned all these things from two ten-foot tall angels (one green, one purple) and from the Egyptian god Thoth in the guise of an old man. Oh, and also a mysterious Freemason who randomly showed up to Drunvalo’s dorm room, once, to talk about geometry.

Drunvalo Melchizedek’s “sacred geometry” is not geometry. There is a great deal more to geometry than just drawing some pretty shapes and patterns. Things like the Flower of Life are absolutely aesthetically pleasing, but they are next to useless in terms of mathematics. If you don’t believe me, go pick up a copy of Euclid’s Elements (in fact, do this anyway) and read through all 13 books. You won’t find the Flower of Life anywhere. Nor will it appear in any modern geometry textbook, because– despite how pretty it looks– the Flower of Life is mathematically boring. There are far more useful constructions to be made with a straightedge and compass.

Neither is “sacred geometry” something which can really be considered sacred. Even amongst its proponents, nobody worships the Flower of Life or the Metatron’s Cube or the Golden Ratio. These things are held in awe and wonder, sure, but no moreso than a sunset or a blooming flower or the rainbow in the mist of a waterfall. They are not ascribed “holy” significance. They are not dedicated to a god or gods. They are not revered or deified. No one is preaching sermons on them, or writing scripture about their nature. Nothing which we could describe as “sacred” can truly be attributed to these things.

Sacred Geometry is neither sacred nor geometry. It is a collection of preposterous assertions about pretty shapes and patterns made by people with little to no understanding of what they are seeing. It stands upon the shoulders of liars and frauds, and persists only due to confirmation bias and ignorance. Sacred Geometry is one of the worst examples of gullible people accepting pseudoscience in order to pretend that their irrational beliefs are actually rational.

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44 thoughts on “Sacred Geometry is Neither

  1. Not quite. I suggest you read Matila Ghyka’s “The Geometry of Art and Life” from 1946. New-agey types probably get a lot of the attributions wrong, but there is an ancient mathematical tradition that flows neatly into the inquiries of Mandelbrot, people trying to understand the underlying mathematics to nature. Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    • Ghyka’s “The Geometry of Art and Life” is a wonderful book, full of lovely scholarship and a keen appreciation for mathematics. However, that’s not what I’m talking about when I refer to the modern “Sacred Geometry” movement, which ascribes esoteric properties to pretty shapes and patterns with almost no understanding or appreciation of the underlying mathematics.

      The ascription of religious significance to actual mathematics dates at least as far back as the Pythagorean brotherhood. However, the modern “Sacred Geometry” movement finds its source in Drunvalo Melchizedek’s preposterous work within the last three decades. Take, for example, that “Flower of Life” pattern which I show in the article. According to the “Sacred Geometry” crowd, this image was the actual demiurge by which God created the universe. Each circle represents a literal “expansion of consciousness” in order to create spacetime. This idea is presented as being an ancient and universal concept, by “Sacred Geometry” proponents, when it seems to have, in fact, been invented by Drunvalo.

  2. If you don’t believe in yourself you’ll believe in anybody.

  3. Here is a letter by Stan Tenen a Geometrical master debunking Drunvalo Melchizedek.
    http://www.danwinter.com/DM0492.html

  4. arnulfo on said:

    Reblogged this on The grokking eagle.

  5. Ryan on said:

    Drunvalo may be wrong but sacred g is real. This guy is definately disinfo. Sacred g is everywhere. Dont let the elites lie you like this anymore humanity. This guys either cometely ignorant, asleep in his soul or a piece of shit lying to you for those who supress us

    • Thanks for taking the time to read and respond to my blog. I always welcome new input, even (and especially) when it is contrary to my own position.

      This guys either cometely ignorant…

      By all means, if you see some bit of information about which I seem to be ignorant, point it out. I always love learning new things, and if that information corrects a mistaken view which I currently hold, all’s the better.

      …asleep in his soul…

      I have no idea what you mean by “soul,” nor how I could be “asleep” in it. Could you, perhaps, elucidate?

      …or a piece of shit lying to you for those who supress us

      I can assure you that I am most certainly not lying; nor am I even aware of anyone who is attempting to suppress you, let alone in service to such a person. But, again, if anything in my work is in error, I certainly welcome correction.

      Which part of this article seems inaccurate to you? What disinformation or lies do you perceive in my work? I’d be more than happy to discuss any specific points which you might like to address.

      • I’m not taking sides, however I do have a question as to why the tone with skeptics and debunkers is always cynical with a hint of egotism?
        Why divid and conquer each other?

        • I’m not taking sides, however I do have a question as to why the tone with skeptics and debunkers is always cynical with a hint of egotism?

          Is this in reference to me? Which parts of my article or comments seem cynical or egotistical?

          Why divid and conquer each other?

          I have no intention to divide and conquer. My only intention is to correct misinformation as I find it.

          • Tom Hilps on said:

            Umm, good sir, your entire article reads like a smear campaign and you yourself offer no evidence to support your claims or to debunk DM’s. Every paragraph calls him a liar, uneducated and a fraud yet you again offer no counter-evidence other than citing other mathematicians’ works (to which I’d say how do you know that these “experts” are correct). Frankly this reads like a butthurt blog with no credible sources, evidence or mathematics to back your claims and disprove DM’s. I get that this New Age information is just that: new, different and out-of-the-ordinary. But just because you disagree with it or find it flawed doesn’t mean it isn’t correct or that a growing number of people find truth in it. Try reading the works of Edgar Cayce, Robert Monroe, and Russel Targ, just to name a few, who have conducted scientifically-backed (and oftentimes government-backed) experiments which have greatly changed our perception of the mind, consciousness and spirit which proves it is possible to tap into our subconscious mind and even communicate with so-called “spirits” or “angels”. I get the sense that you are a learned person but you seem very phobic of the idea that there are things in this world that science/math cannot yet prove or disprove. Just like Western Medicine cannot cure all diseases and ailments, science cannot explain everything. I appreciate counter-arguments as they are crucial to be able to see an issue from varying viewpoints and to make an educated guess or opinion on the matter. However, sacred geometry’s ubiquity is hard to deny (e.g. in humans’ dimensions, ancient civilization structures/megaliths, nature, and in the solar system and beyond). DM may not have been the brightest pupil or most skilled writer, but give the guy credit for bringing these “preposterous” claims to the public. Can you imagine the backlash this guy received? You’d either have to be a complete nut-job or you’d have to be on to something to even speak such claims. His claims may seem outlandish, but I’m pretty sure Copernicus’ ideas sounded equally outlandish when he first proposed that the earth revolves around the sun (yes – he was still incorrect about the sun being the center of the universe but you get my point). The world needs more visionaries who push the boundaries to what we’ve come to believe as real. Without such individuals, we’d still think that we’re sitting on a flat earth that is the center of the universe. I challenge you to meditate, learn more about your own self and spirit and look inward. I guarantee what you find will challenge your previous beliefs and give you a whole new perception of this world and all the mysteries in it. Thanks for your blog. While I disagree wholeheartedly with your approach, manner, language and lack of evidence, these types of discussions are vital and I thank you for bringing us the opportunity to discuss these extraordinary claims.

          • Thanks for taking the time to read and reply!

            <blockquoteUmm, good sir, your entire article reads like a smear campaign and you yourself offer no evidence to support your claims or to debunk DM’s. Every paragraph calls him a liar, uneducated and a fraud yet you again offer no counter-evidence other than citing other mathematicians’ works (to which I’d say how do you know that these “experts” are correct).Which of my claims do you find dubious? I’ll gladly explain them further. I promise, I won’t simply rely on the work of other mathematicians. Rather, I’ll derive the results myself so that you can follow the steps. If I make any errors, this should make it easy to point them out.

            I get that this New Age information is just that: new, different and out-of-the-ordinary. But just because you disagree with it or find it flawed doesn’t mean it isn’t correct or that a growing number of people find truth in it.

            The fact that it is incorrect is what makes it incorrect. Whether people “find truth in it” is irrelevent. I’m simply discussing the factual claims made by Drunvalo Melchizedek and not the myriad interpretations put forth by those he has influenced.

            Try reading the works of Edgar Cayce, Robert Monroe, and Russel Targ, just to name a few, who have conducted scientifically-backed (and oftentimes government-backed) experiments which have greatly changed our perception of the mind, consciousness and spirit which proves it is possible to tap into our subconscious mind and even communicate with so-called “spirits” or “angels”.

            Can you point to any such “scientifically-backed experiments” for me to review?

            I get the sense that you are a learned person but you seem very phobic of the idea that there are things in this world that science/math cannot yet prove or disprove.

            Quite the contrary! There are quite a number of things– an infinite number, in fact– which cannot be proven or disproven mathematically. This is actually one of the most interesting and important results of mathematical exploration of the 20th Century! It’s known as Gödel’s Incompleteness Theorem.

            That said, Gödel doesn’t therefore justify belief in an untenable and ad hoc proposition. So, it really doesn’t help proponents of Sacred Geometry.

            Just like Western Medicine cannot cure all diseases and ailments, science cannot explain everything.

            I don’t see how this is relevant, since medicine has a far better track record at curing ailments than have holistic or “new-age” methods. Whether or not medicine can cure every illness is irrelevant to the question of whether Sacred Geometry claims are factually correct.

            However, sacred geometry’s ubiquity is hard to deny

            Not at all! I find it quite easy to deny!

            DM may not have been the brightest pupil or most skilled writer, but give the guy credit for bringing these “preposterous” claims to the public.

            I have! I was quite explicit in stating that almost all of the modern Sacred Geometry movement derives from his work. Giving someone credit for espousing false information does not require giving that person praise or respect for so doing.

            Can you imagine the backlash this guy received? You’d either have to be a complete nut-job or you’d have to be on to something to even speak such claims.

            Or you could notice that people are willing to pay good money for stuff you made up, whole cloth, and realize that bilking those suckers is easier than real work.

            The world needs more visionaries who push the boundaries to what we’ve come to believe as real. Without such individuals, we’d still think that we’re sitting on a flat earth that is the center of the universe.

            These discoveries did not arise from people making completely ad hoc, unsupoortable claims. These discoveries arose from making observations about the world, forming a model to explain those data, and then earnestly attempting to disprove that model.

            I challenge you to meditate, learn more about your own self and spirit and look inward. I guarantee what you find will challenge your previous beliefs and give you a whole new perception of this world and all the mysteries in it.

            It was precisely that sort of epiphany which led me down the philosophical path which resulted in this blog! But thanks!

            Thanks for your blog. While I disagree wholeheartedly with your approach, manner, language and lack of evidence, these types of discussions are vital and I thank you for bringing us the opportunity to discuss these extraordinary claims.

            My pleasure, of course!

    • Listen, this is the level of ignorance displayed by one follower of the sacred geometries….

      “People really make it difficult for themselves, a sun/star is a black hole and vice versa its one and the same, think of sunspots on the sun its blacker than black it doesn’t makes sense for a big ball of fire. Not only that fire need oxygen too, how come it burns if space is vacuum. Then there is solid object’s (spaceships?) that fly in/out of the sun and through the sun hang around close to the sun. If you can except that everything is energy around us a dance between high and low energies (male and female energies) that create, then you should know that what is a sun in this dimension is a black hole in another dimension since it can suck up all types of energies. What? heat on earth? yeah its because energy rays of the sun goes through the earth atmosphere creating friction in the process, thus warmth. Its so easy and so logical than everything else I heard, just think about it they discover a massive black hole in the middle of our star galaxy and they even came to the conclusion that other star galaxies have it as well. Yet most people believe its all sucking up monster, while in the mean time it keep galaxies together. No.. black holes as wel as suns/stars keeps the energies flowing in and beween the higher and lower dimensions. If this doesn’t sound plausible, then you come up with a better one that everybody can understand without getting difficult on the subject.”

      What you and others fail to understand and refuse to believe is that typically someone like myself or our heroic blogger here has fully understood and moved beyond the “math” of this subject before we were out of grade-school. It’s trivial, and if you actually did have a head for math, you would know that. Unfortunately you don’t have the proper skills for self-evaluation.

  6. Dante on said:

    This is one of the top searches on Google.

    I’m new to the concept of Sacred Geometry. I only recently began giving it some serious thought and there’s no denying the numbers are there. I’ve never heard of the person in your article, but I believe you when you say he’s a hack. So far a lot of the sites I’ve checked concerning the subject have shared your views.

    However, NONE of these skeptics have provided a solid counter-argument in regards to the subject matter of Sacred G. Just unmitigated cynicism and one sided arguments. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

    • Thanks for taking the time to read and comment!

      I only recently began giving it some serious thought and there’s no denying the numbers are there.

      There’s no denying which numbers are where?

      However, NONE of these skeptics have provided a solid counter-argument in regards to the subject matter of Sacred G.

      Counter argument to which claims? I’ve given quite a bit of solid counter argument to particular claims of Sacred Geometry proponents in a number of posts on this blog.

  7. fonz on said:

    Who ever wrote this article is the typical brainwashed invidual in modern day that only allows whats previosuly given to him or his generation, and classifies this as truth. Truth is inividually found. I too read his novel and am biased on where the hell drunvalo got his knowledge from. But in the ene it doesnt matter. I only use this book to build on my expierence. A lot of people arent ready for this knowledge drunvalo gives(hints the author of this article). Dont get me wrong not even im ready for this stuff either. But I will accept it for what it does. Not what it is!!! What it did was motivate me to learn more about myself and the energy around me.
    I suggest anyone who has the same ideas( a.k.a hater of drunvalo) to read his serpent of light book. Hes giving his expierence of how he came to know this stuff. And makes you undertstand it more. The key is to seek truth based on your expierences, drunvalo as wonderful as he is was allowed to have greater expierences than most of us in this life( angela and toth giving him some awesome knowledge) BUT that doesnt mean we will not have these either. It just means we arent ready for that and one day we will be. Immortality is destined for all, non-forgetten memoury( what drunvalo already has). We too will have this soon. But not yet, the good thing is we will always be alive but will be aware of it like this great man is? Well thats on us to decide.

    – dont judge of writing skills
    – seek the meaning of this shit I know I sound a bit non-educated lol and was to lazy to fix any grammer errors

  8. Who ever wrote this article is the typical brainwashed invidual in modern day that only allows whats previosuly given to him or his generation, and classifies this as truth

    Quite the contrary! I’m always searching for new information and ideas. And I classify as truth that which corresponds to reality. I do not simply latch onto ideas of yesteryear as if they are written into the fabric of the cosmos.

    A lot of people arent ready for this knowledge drunvalo gives(hints the author of this article).

    What knowledge do you think is to be found in the Ancient Secret of the Flower of Life for which I am unready?

    Hes giving his expierence of how he came to know this stuff.

    Drunvalo says that “he came to know this stuff” because it was told to him by two giant chromatic angels and an old man claiming to be an ancient Egyptian god.

    …dont judge of writing skills

    I can assure you that I do not! I much prefer to judge based on the content of a written work than on the form of that work. For example, when I reviewed ASoFoL I did not judge the book on its horrendous writing and complete lack of structure. I judged it based on its complete ignorance concerning matters of mathematics and geometry– ostensibly, the main topic of the book.

    seek the meaning of this shit I know I sound a bit non-educated lol and was to lazy to fix any grammer errors

    Of what “shit” would you suggest I seek the meaning?

    And, again, don’t worry about your copious grammatical mistakes. I much prefer to judge based on the content of your writing, and none of your mistakes have made your comment any less comprehensible than it would have been otherwise.

  9. First of, You seem very keen on weeding out the information presented, and double down on that with every commenters (i doubt they care to elaborate as they didn’t even bother do it in the first place).

    I, on the other hand, see the hole thing in a different matter to you by prioritizing other facet of the ordeal.

    1- Guru (you must lie & cheat to the ones that can’t prove)
    *- referring to Feynman’s magnetic rant, he clearly explain his refusal to “dumb” down any understanding as one must lie (“cheating” he says) to give the answer someone else is seeking.

    You, me, rational ppl (all scientist or theorist) refuse to take on that responsibility/risk

    Guru, spiritual, emotional ppl, who do not have a complete language to convey INFORMATION have no problem taking that risk as no other system exist to take on that risk.

    furthermore, just like we scientist, use “Feynman Technique” (i didn’t plan those 2 Feynman reference… but it will help make my point soon) “Bernard Perona” seem to use a technique of his own to make you see a light without telling you were to look.

    in essence, Bernard Perona and Feynman are both Guru’s, trying to make you see without telling you what to see…

    To scientist… Guru are *fraud* & to Guru… scientist are *limited*

    Now what i like about spirit science is 2 fold.

    – They allow both(science & spirit) to co-exist.. Science still refuse to allow both solely based on the observer’s shortcomings. (not a bad thing as we evolve… but most likely wrong too)

    -They also do the same with lies… the needed lie i am talking about are never presented as a truth but a momentarily acceptance of the statement as truth in the name of a message…. This is very important as it allows knowledge to roam free and ultimately get out of the box.

    I think you did your homework, presented your opinion intelligently and you are right all the way not forgetting encouraging troll to bait.

    But that’s a scientific argumentation…
    – it’s awesome to win argument, not always to being “right”

  10. If you didn’t have time to read all that… here’s the short version

    I see/feel/believe PI as the encryption key of life
    (infinity is a very clever thing, maybe we would understand it if we never invented “zero”)

    – Spirit-science is the one of the only one allowing for that to be as it will take infinity to prove that point using science.

    So fraud or not, there is a lot behind what he did. perhaps the packaging is all wrong.

    • Thanks for reading and taking the time to reply!

      1- Guru (you must lie & cheat to the ones that can’t prove)
      *- referring to Feynman’s magnetic rant, he clearly explain his refusal to “dumb” down any understanding as one must lie (“cheating” he says) to give the answer someone else is seeking.

      The primary difference is that there exists a coherent and reproducible system behind the things which Feynman teaches, one which is shared by almost all who work in that field, while no such system exists for proponents of “Sacred Geometry”or “Spirit Science.”

      They allow both(science & spirit) to co-exist.. Science still refuse to allow both solely based on the observer’s shortcomings. (not a bad thing as we evolve… but most likely wrong too)

      Science does not “refuse” to allow spirit to exist. Science is simply a tool, and like any tool, it loses its effectiveness when one attempts to use it for a job which it was not intended to do. A hammer is meant to drive nails. If I attempt to use a hammer to drive screws, or to cut a board into lengths, or to paint a wall, that attempt will obviously end in failure.

      Science deals with definable, falsifiable concepts. If one can define “spirit” in such a way as to allow it to be a falsifiable concept, then science can be utilized in its exploration.

      But that’s a scientific argumentation…
      – it’s awesome to win argument, not always to being “right”

      I think you have things precisely backwards, here. I am far more concerned with being right and correcting my own misconceptions about the world than I am with winning any argument. I would much rather lose an argument and learn some new truth than to win an argument while holding to incorrect beliefs about the world. This is, in fact, the ideal to which nearly every scientist I know strives towards, and a person who holds to false propositions solely in order to win arguments is not generally considered to be a very good scientist.

      I see/feel/believe PI as the encryption key of life
      (infinity is a very clever thing, maybe we would understand it if we never invented “zero”)

      In what way? What about life is “encrypted?” In what manner can the ratio between a circle’s circumference and its diameter be used to decrypt this data?

      As for infinity, I’m not sure why you would think the concept of zero impinges upon understanding the infinite.

      So fraud or not, there is a lot behind what he did. perhaps the packaging is all wrong.

      Such as what? Which of the things proposed by Drunvalo Melchizedek do you find to be applicable to the real world? In what way?

  11. Why do you say sacred geometry is useless, when it can be found everywhere in nature? All you have to do is go out to your own yard and look at a pinecone, a sunflower, or a snail’s shell. The spiral based on the Fibonacci sequence can be found in ALL of those things and more! In fact, check this out…

    • The geometry of natural objects is surely aesthetically pleasing. However, the claims that the Fibonacci sequence and the golden spiral can be found “everywhere in nature” are vastly overblown. Your own example, above, of a spiraling shell is not even a golden spiral. If you don’t believe me, go ahead and try to superimpose the actual golden spiral that lies above it onto the shell. You’ll see that it clearly does not fit.

      Nor did I ever claim that sacred geometry is “useless.” Quite the contrary, it is readily apparent that Drunvalo Melchizedek has been able to use sacred geometry in order to line his pockets for a few decades, now. Rather, the claim which I put forward is that “sacred geometry” cannot rightly be called either sacred or geometry.

      • Aaron on said:

        Look at examples 7 and 8 on this page. The galaxy and the hurricane. You can see, by this overlay, that both clearly DO conform to the golden ratio/fibonacci sequence:

        http://io9.gizmodo.com/5985588/15-uncanny-examples-of-the-golden-ratio-in-nature

        • Look at examples 7 and 8 on this page. The galaxy and the hurricane. You can see, by this overlay, that both clearly DO conform to the golden ratio/fibonacci sequence

          Hurricanes and galaxies describe logarithmic spirals, and since the Golden Spiral is itself a logarithmic spiral, it is unsurprising that we can find examples of galaxies and hurricanes which are close fits to the Golden Spiral. Not every galaxy nor every hurricane fits so closely.

          However, even in places where the Fibonacci sequence– or similarly recursive additive sequences– and the Golden Ratio do appear in nature, it doesn’t really seem all that surprising. These are very natural sequences which are formed by rather simple additive patterns. I see no reason to think that there is anything divine, sacred, spiritual, or supernatural about the practical applications of Fibonacci-like sequences.

  12. You’re an ignoramus. Cognitively dissonant.

  13. ik on said:

    Don’t be so cynical bro. I’ve actually seen a video on the internet of a village in Haiti or so where an actual pine cone flower that looks exactly likE wat drunvalo is talking about is very much revered, not worshiped per se but great importance is given to it. Let’s just be a little open minded. Einstein was also a slow student and nikola Tessa was dubbed the mad scientist. Science is madnes. even da Vinc, if not for his Relationship with the papacy would have been thoroughly this so history is a good teacher too on matters like this, there’s always something to learn from a mad man.

    • Don’t be so cynical bro.

      I’m not a cynic. I’m a skeptic. Wholly disparate philosophical traditions.

      I’ve actually seen a video on the internet of a village in Haiti or so where an actual pine cone flower that looks exactly likE wat drunvalo is talking about is very much revered, not worshiped per se but great importance is given to it.

      Is it so revered expressly due to its geometry? Is it referred to as “the Flower of Life?” Does those people ascribe the same meaning to its geometry as does Drunvalo? If so, I’d be very interested in learning more about them. If not, I fail to see how they are relevant.

      Einstein was also a slow student

      This is a common, but untenable, myth. Einstein was a methodical and quiet student, but he was not a slow student in any sense of the word. He was tackling Calculus by his early teens.

      nikola Tessa was dubbed the mad scientist.

      Tesla was certainly mad. The man was in love with a pigeon. That does not imply that his genius was due to his madness, nor that it caused his madness. The two may have been entirely unrelated.

      there’s always something to learn from a mad man.

      I’ve never implied that Drunvalo is mad. Quite the contrary, I think him to be perfectly sane. I simply find him to be poorly educated on the matters he discusses, and seemingly dishonest as regards his personal history.

  14. RONNIE on said:

    WELL DONE!

  15. jimmycrackcorn on said:

    False Christs appear at every end of and beginnings of a new church. (Church: Literally, a cohesive collection of acceptable group ideals and thoughts). I find the man extremely vain and pretentious, and delusional… for a vain man speaks vainly of vain ideas to appeal to the vanity in others. When asked,” are you the Messiah”? Christ said” who do you say I am?” Buddha did not call himself Buddha. If you were to ask me, and if I were an honest man, “what is your name and are you a truthful person”? I would have to say,” I am the worlds biggest liar! and my name is mud.

  16. Ok Mr. Boxing Pythagoras, youre a clever guy, Id like to know what you think about THIS. It literally shows you some concrete evidence that there’s something real in all of this mumbo jumbo. I don’t doubt any of it. I can usually sense bullshit when I see/hear it, but with all this stuff I get a genuine sense of authenticity. So much so that I don’t feel as though I should question it as abrasively as you are. I hope this helps you.

    ❤ Lauren

    • Thank you for taking the time to read and reply, Ms. Bradley! The video which you sent certainly shows some pretty patterns being created by sound waves, but that’s rather to be expected since the sound waves in question are, themselves, very pretty sinoid patterns. I’m not sure I understand what this is meant to show me beyond that.

      Do you see something more in this video which I am not recognizing?

  17. laurenlovesdeftones on said:

    I can’t really understand how you aren’t seeing the “sacred” in all this. Its the math, physics, and alchemy that constructs the very fabric of life and everything on the planet. Numbers don’t lie, nor are they fraudulent. Its concrete fact. EVERYTHING IS CONNECTED. How do you not see this?

    • Numbers don’t lie, but people quite often do, and they try to make their lies sound better by associating them with numbers.

      I certainly don’t deny that “everything is connected,” though I suspect that I understand that phrase differently than you might.

      What I don’t see is how things like the “Flower of Life” pattern have any greater significance than being aesthetically pleasing.

      • MundiGirl on said:

        OK friend forget this Drunvalo guy. But yes the flower of life is essential as a rudimentary beginning pattern and essential pattern of life. It comes from OTHER much more ancient traditions then Drunvalo. He just copied/ co-opted/ distorted other ideas STOLE them and them regurgitated the mess. Still, yes the flower of life which he did not make up or come up with in any way is the essential pattern of life. Be well.

        • The pattern, itself, is a fairly simple and fairly lovely aesthetic construction which certainly predates Drunvalo Melchizedek by millennia. However, the name “Flower of Life,” the idea that it is an “essential pattern of life,” and the claim that the pattern has a demiurgic quality are all the invention of Drunvalo, insofar as I am aware.

          Can you name a single person who referred to the pattern as “the Flower of Life” prior to Drunvalo? Do you have any evidence that even a single other person prior to Drunvalo ascribed the same meaning to the “Flower of Life?” Do you know of any writings in which the pattern is thought to be “essential to life” from before Drunvalo decided to market his purportedly “Ancient Secrets?”

          The Flower of Life pattern is certainly very pretty. However, that seems to be all it is: a pretty pattern.

  18. Apiphine on said:

    Thank you for taking a common sense approach to ancient geometry. I am fascinated by it but do not think that the shapes provide magical powers.

    It seems that the Flower of Life is pretty and that the earliest record we have of it is 500BCE. There is definitely no proof of its connection to the seven days of creation.

    But it does have a connection to many religious symbols and architecture with Asian & Abrahamic faiths.

    Also, your statement dismissing Phi as having an influence on the growth of life seems quite pessimistic. Phi is not about turning out perfect each and every time rather it is about nature getting it close to Phi. When it does align, it’s beautiful. When it doesn’t it’s interesting or disturbing.

    The connection of geometry and phi provide many connections between Music, Colour, and Proportions that have captured the attention of the worlds greatest artists and architects.

    That being said. Again, thank you for aiding the internet in Drunvalo Melchizedek’s cultish claims!

    • Don’t get me wrong! I think the Golden Ratio is an incredibly beautiful geometric property, and I do certainly love seeing it utilized in art, architecture, and other aspects of life.

      My only contention is that people take the concept TOO far. The Golden Ratio is NOT a supernatural thing. Quite the contrary, its incredible beauty derives precisely from the fact that it IS such a natural expression.

  19. Quite a grumpy article. What’s trash to one man may be sacred to another, it’s quite another thing to say that “Hey here’s something I don’t totally understand, allow me to make sweeping generalizations about everyone else who has subscribed to this idea.”

    Box away señor, I’m like Ali & Tyson all wrapped up into one: https://medium.com/@pythagoreanism/is-math-the-basis-of-reality-91d35fab1e0f

    • Thanks for taking the time to read and reply!

      Quite a grumpy article.

      On the contrary, I was not grumpy at all when I wrote this article. In fact, I was rather happy to be able to discuss the topic openly.

      …it’s quite another thing to say that “Hey here’s something I don’t understand, allow me to make sweeping generalizations about everyone else who has subscribed to this idea.”

      The problem isn’t that I’m trying to discuss something which I don’t understand. The problem is that Drunvalo Melchizedek attempts to discuss things which I understand quite well, and that he makes copious errors in that discussion.

      Box away señor, I’m like Ali & Tyson all wrapped up into one

      I think you’re overestimating your capabilities more than a smidgen.

  20. Ben Dierks on said:

    So after reading your article I’m left with questions, even the comment section didn’t answer these for me. When it comes Edgar Cayce being an influence on Bernie what point are you trying to make? Are you saying Edgar was correct/incorrect in his “channelings” and can you specify the cases and evidence to prove/disprove them? Next is Bernie’s claims to be “one semister away from a degree” since you don’t believe he is educated(or is poorly educated) can you tell me when/where he did, or did not, get the schooling that is in question? Next, what “fairly basic concepts” did he get wrong? You’re making all these claims like a teacher grading a paper but not showing us students how the work is wrong. Next would be his belief in how the universe was created, the void and spheres thing, how is his authority any different than the churches belief in how the universe came to be? And how does that work against him? While his claims aren’t scientific neither is the church’s, but you’re not out hear calling the Bible into question. Next, you say his “sacred geometry” isn’t geometry and the flower of life is “next to useless mathematically” Can you explain the reasoning and evidence you have for saying that? I’m not an expert in mathematics or geometry so just telling me it isn’t geometry and the flower of life next to useless is about the same as him saying it is geometry and is useful, and sorry not reading 13 books to see how the flower of life isn’t in them. I will stop the questions there because I don’t want to seem nit-picky about your words, I’m not a follower of Bernie, or a scientifically minded person, just an average guy trying to keep up with you kids who are at both ends of those spectrums. I would like to hear your opinion on the cells division and how they resemble geometric shapes/patterns and relate to the “seed of life” thing, as far as I can tell that’s the only “sacred” aspect of what he offers, and even that doesn’t seem “sacred” more like how a person from several hundred years ago would describe a complicated scientific process.

    • Thanks for taking the time to read and to posit some thoughtful questions, Ben! I’ll do my best to answer them.

      When it comes Edgar Cayce being an influence on Bernie what point are you trying to make?

      Only that Drunvalo Melchizedek is not the first person to claim he received strange and wondrous information from channeling or being visited by divine beings without offering any evidence to support that bold position; and that Melchizedek was directly influenced by another such person.

      Next is Bernie’s claims to be “one semister away from a degree” since you don’t believe he is educated(or is poorly educated) can you tell me when/where he did, or did not, get the schooling that is in question?

      He does not mention the name of the college in which he claims to have been studying physics in ASotFoL. If he has mentioned it elsewhere, I have not seen it. My indictment was not directed at the school which Drunvalo attended, but rather at his understanding of the material in question, whether or not he actually studied physics in school.

      Next, what “fairly basic concepts” did he get wrong? You’re making all these claims like a teacher grading a paper but not showing us students how the work is wrong.

      I detail these in my article “Drunvalo Melchizedek is Bad at Math,” to which I linked in this post. You can also find it by clicking on Mathematics in the top menu.

      While his claims aren’t scientific neither is the church’s, but you’re not out hear calling the Bible into question.

      You must not be very familiar with my work. I dispute the claims of the Bible quite frequently. I suggest my articles “Why I am Not a Christian” and “On the Resurrection,” for a small sample of that. Even more can be found by clicking on “Against William Lane Craig” in the top menu.

      Next, you say his “sacred geometry” isn’t geometry and the flower of life is “next to useless mathematically” Can you explain the reasoning and evidence you have for saying that?

      As I mentioned in the article, you can pick up any geometry textbook written in the last 2300 years, and you will not find any discussion of the Flower of Life pattern. Geometry is not the drawing of aesthetically pleasing patterns; it is the analysis and exploration of the properties and relationships of spatial figures.

      I would like to hear your opinion on the cells division and how they resemble geometric shapes/patterns and relate to the “seed of life” thing

      Some cells are roughly circular or spherical in shape. As these divide, the bodies pass through one another. Two spheroids which separate after sharing a center-point will pass through a position resembling the vesica piscis. Naturally, any pattern based on the vesica piscis will therefore also share a resemblance. As you say, it’s nothing “sacred,” though it certainly is interesting.

      Please let me know if I’ve missed or inadequately answered any of your questions!

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